Friday, June 18, 2010

A comment about the right to marry spawns a Facebook debate.

The following is a Facebook feed from last November, 2009. The state of Maine had just taken away the rights of Gays and Lesbians to marry. I saw from the comments of my Facebook friends that they were justifiably upset. This was a travesty.

So I posted what, I thought, would be a positive spin on the situation. What happened was the responses I received got me thinking about why the religious right does not want gay marriage and how come they keep saying the word pedophile when we're talking about human rights? It's so stupid.

So I'll let the Facebook feed tell it's own story.

Of course, I'm going to comment...

November 2009

Mafia Hairdresser We're upset about Maine. And it just shows how much our own families and friends are still putting their money, good vibes and interests into right wing churches and causes. Are we all standing up to those friends and family and asking them to stop this practice because it hurts us? Personally, I may loose a few Facebook Friends because of this statement: “To my Friends and Family who can: Stop the right wing hate.”

Seven friends liked my status update and gave me thumbs ups. And then Friend #1 commented.

Facebook Friend #1 Right on. I too have lost friends in the past based on their political or religious beliefs. But I'm okay with that. We CHOOSE who we want in our life. And if others choose to create a life that does not involved critical thinking or engagement, then why choose to have them in your life?

That was cool. But I thought my point was that more that I was for something rather than against anything. And I wanted to say, hey, we’re all human:

Mafia Hairdresser I'm not pushing anyone away. I'm just saying, hey, I love you. Your kinship with this religious right is hurting me and my rights. Please look at that. I'm not walking away from anyone. I've totally been an asshole and people have graciously waited for me to wake up. It's the least I can do for everyone else.

Friend #1 got it.

Facebook Friend #1 Right on, redux!


Facebook Friend #2 I'm upset about Maine, too, doll. Humph. I just don't understand why this is an issue. You love someone; you should be able to marry them. Seems simple enough.

Should be.

Facebook Friend #3 None of my family OR friends are putting money or good vibes into right wing causes. I don't need people in my life like that.. voting to take rights AWAY from fellow citizens is just disgusting and very anti-American. I don't get it.

Facebook Friend #4 Allow the fantasy folks, aka religious, have theirs and allow the gay community to have ours. Allow us to go to fantasy hell. I'm ok with it.

Meh. Then my Facebook Friend in Seattle Washington chimed in. He’s a Democrat & Army Reservist. And has worked for many Democrat campaigns.

Facebook Friend WA WA. states domestic partnership law is passing. :) While it may not be marriage, it's now equal to! We've had it on the books for the last year and I'm so happy to see the voters here are not taking civil rights away.

This is where it got interesting. My buddy from high school, (a dude who was not-popular, bullied, and in the school band), decided that my Facebook wall was a good place to “educate.” This man is white. Has kids. And he’s an elementary teacher and now, obviously, “religious.”

Facebook High School Friend It's not about hate, I still love you man. It's about preserving the family unit, which has all but dissolved. Without that, we live in an amoral society where there are no values left to teach our children.

Facebook Friend #5 You’re right. It's not all about hate and all about ignorance. Your family will not dissolve if I create my own family unit.

Facebook High School Friend I totally agree. I don't think it's right for people to tell others how to live their life. But then it should go both ways I have problems with laws that say my children should be forced to learn about sexual lifestyles at a young age, with no opt-out available for me as a parent.

At this time, I’m not reading any of this stuff. But when I did, I’m like, what?! How did we move on to children and teaching them about “sexual lifestyles?”
Even though I was engaged once, to a Canadian (hated it), I just want all people of the United States to have the right to get married – to whomever they wanted – unless it’s between a Buddhist Chinese man and an Islamic African American Woman. I just think that would be such a confusing wedding ceremony to pull off.

Facebook Friend WA That's not true. Parents have the right to allow their child not to attend those classes. Permission slips come home asking the parent if they want their child to hear that type of information. If they choose not, then the child is usually sent to a study hall or the library. At least that is how it's done in WA. So you're wanting to preserve the "idea" of a family unit. Sorry that has long since been dissolved. From the first time a husband and wife who had children got a divorce. With over 50% of marriages ending in divorce today the "father + mother + 2.5 children" is, sadly, a rare occurrence. But why shouldn't children who are raised by 2 moms and 2 dads think that there is any less normal than any other family? Any child raised in a loving nurturing home should know that this is the right place to be; no matter who is raising them. To teach otherwise is to teach discrimination or shame. Meaning: those children being raised by above (right wing mentioned families).

Oy. All I really wanted to say was “Hey gays, come out of the closet, in everyway, and tell your friends and family that by voting against marriage equality, you’ll never be able to get married to the person you want.”
This Facbook feed was getting too racy, for even me, so I tried to tie it up in a little bow and end it.

Mafia Hairdresser Good talk, men. And it just shows how far we have to go. When anyone feels that a marriage between two men or two women takes away from something, or when anyone feels that gays and lesbians are a threat instead of just another one of Gods peoples, it just show how much money and time is spent on those thoughts that have no basis. We'll get there. Just keep talkin and breakin' bread with each other.

High School Friend really has a beef with the educational system so he goes on:

Facebook High School Friend Here is a website which shows how parents have no right to opt out. It's being appealed in Federal court, because it is a violation of the constitution: makes me so angry is that I'm considered to be a bigot if I don't want my own children exposed to sexual teachings in kindergarten.

At first, I did not go onto the link posted. And I don’t have kids. And yet I support High School Friend to raise his kids anyway he sees fit. I didn’t think I believed in teaching “sexual lifestyle” to anyone at any age in public schools. But once I read the article in the link, I thought, hey, they are just trying to tell kids that gay exists. (This is where I know you’ll groan ha-ha and eww…!) I know it’s a “touchy” subject, but I know a few heterosexual men who were not molested as young men but actually did the “natural” experimenting with the same sex when they were young. Shame and confusion followed some of them and I wondered, if they were taught the difference between gay and straight and bisexual, might this have prevented their confusion or pain? Is it promoting a gay lifestyle by telling kids it’s there? Or are you preparing your kids to not to hate but appreciate? I think there would be a lot of heterosexual boys that would go, “I’m not that, because I know what that is-and I am not that.” WARNING: And yet, if you have a homosexual kid, they’re going to fly out of the closet at thanksgiving dinner a lot sooner than the demise of their first marriage. So, I was pulled in to the conversation. I was moved to think beyond my original support shout for gay marriage. I was really thinking about why it was so scary to whoever could be afraid of it.

Facebook High School Friend The family unit is destroyed. The lack of fathers in the household has led to much crime, and the disintegration of our society. But no matter which way you slice it, you still need both sperm and an egg to reproduce. Sorry fellas!

That was just stupid.

Facebook Friend #5 I live on a block that has 2 parents who happen to be gay and they have 2 kids. This is a family and that family is not taking anything away from yours. Sperm and the egg produced their 2 kids but an adoption made the family complete. The family unit lives on my block.

Facebook High School Friend I totally understand what you mean. That family doesn't affect mine. But what does affect mine is the secular humanistic agenda that says "if it feels good, do it." That kind of teaching leads to an amoral society with no values. In California we now have Harvey Milk Day. It's great to honor someone who was persecuted, but does it have to be a pedophile? I affect my children to have to sit in public school and by law be forced to honor someone like that. Why not have an Adolph Hitler day then? He was just “living his life,” right? I mean where does it end?pedophile? It affects my children to have to sit in a public school, and by law be forced to honor someone like that.Why not have an Adolph Hitler day then? He was just "living his life," right? I mean, where does it end?

Now I got it. High School Friend is a little nuts. I do remember him in high school a little clearer.

Facebook Friend #5 OMG. Be well. And live long.

Facebook Friend #5 must have realized that Facebook High School Friend was talking nuts too, so, after this his last message, he un-friends me. And then puts up a Facebook block on Facebook High School Friend and then re-friends me.

Facebook High School Friend Here are excerpts from Harvey Milk's Biography:Randy Shilts, a homosexual San Francisco Chronicle reporter, wrote a favorable and sordid biography of Milk in "The Mayor of Castro Street." The 1982 book detailed Milk's sexual relationships with a 16-year-old, a 19-year-old and other young men: "...sixteen-year-old McKinley was looking for some kind of father figure...At 33, Milk was launching a new life, though he could hardly have imagined the unlikely direction toward which his new lover would pull him." (pages 30-31) "It would be to boyish-looking men in their late teens and early 20's that Milk would be attracted for the rest of his life." (page 24) "Harvey always had a penchant for young waifs with substance abuse problems." (page 180) And this is going to be celebrated in our schools? Nice.

We now went from taking away the right to marry from people in Maine to more Harvey Milk. What is High School Friend reading and why is he taking the time to Facebook this stuff in a realm where it can do no good for his “cause?” He’s a teacher?
This is where I wrap it up. I think the feed proved a point. People are still afraid of gays. And I think it’s just plain mean to not let gays marry each other. There are no arguments based in fact that should support a continued ban on such simple human rights. And, after all these years, the religious right wingers still like to say pedophile and homosexual in the same sentence, even though that will never make it true. I could take a shot at the pedophile priests, but I feel sad for them and their victims. I believe that those priests opted to keep their religion and suppress their sexuality and that f__ked them up. I also believe that if their victims could have been a little more educated on what sexuality was, gay and straight, they might have been able to defend themselves or reported the abuse sooner.
All this from a little Facebook update.


The following is the rest of the Feed that I felt too boring and weird for me. But have at it, if you like.

Facebook Friend WA OK last I checked any one over the age of 18 is considered an adult. That does not make some one a pedophile. Why does the conversation always head in that direction when people talk about homosexual men? Stats show there are far more hetro males who rape and are pedophiles and any other group. Even while a young girls case is renewed because she was located after what 18 years. That was a married couple who did this disgusting thing, that's the morality you want taught? Yes this was a loving family the husband and wife kid napped her but they raised her as if she were theirs. Never mind that they raped her repeatedly forced her to have two children (in the back yard) and raped the children. Both it's ok they were a married hetro couple so that the morality begin. talk about teaching "if it feels right do it" sadly comments like that make you look ignorant we're not in the 60's anymore. And he was not just persecuted he was MURDERED for defending human rights. I'll bet you watch COUGAR Town and laugh and think nothing of it. Again a double standard. When an older man has sex with a younger woman it fine, and now we have shows glamorizing older women having sex with young men. But man when a LGBT person has sex with a legal aged younger person their instantly labeled as pedophiles. Here Preacher, Preacher Preacher bring on those alter boys and girls. Yes another moral value taught by the religious right, oh wait they covered that up for how many years. I do have to give you credit for reading the bio, or did you gather that from another gay bashing web site?As for Hitler he too murdered homosexuals, so please let’s learn more about what a hate monger can do when left alone to quietly preach HATE to millions of people allowing for the exterminations of nearly 2.5 million Jews. Oh wait there's an entire section during HISTORY class already dedicated to him. It's called WORLD WAR 2!!!!!!!

Facebook Friend WA Looking at your web site I understand if you don’t want your child to learn tolerance, why should others be excluded. By teaching children to except their peers and to acknowledge that families can be different is a bad thing, really????From the site, “In kindergarten, the schools plan to introduce children to "The New Girl … And Me" by Jacqui Robins. The book is about a young girl who is new at a school and strikes up a friendship with another girl after a popular boy refuses to play with her.Not sure how this is considered sexual. Guess one really has to read between the lines to pick that out. As for the opt-out choice I'm sure your child has missed school because of an illness, a Dr. apt, something. If you truly don’t want them to be informed then keep them home that day. There you have opted out! You're not considered a bigot for not wanting your child exposed to sexual teachings in kindergarten. You're considered a bigot when you only want your child excluded from certain sections of said lessons. They even list the lesson plan number, what are the other lessons they teach in the sexual health class? Why were the other lesson plans not listed? Because the author was focused on the fact that teaching tolerance of the LGBT people is bad. She even goes so far as mentioning the amount of money that will be spent ($8,000) of a multi million dollar budget. Yep they're going to break the bank with that lesson plan. How many students are in the Alameda school district? And why not teach about leaders, artist, writers etc who just so happened to be LGBT. Are you implying that if you're gay you're not able to contribute to society? Oh let those moral values shine.So question, how many times a day does your religion require prayer and for how long? Hourly, 10 times a day for 15 minutes inquiring minds. Because I know when I pray it's usually for less than a minute and more times than not no one even knows I'm doing it. So why does there need to be dedicated time during the school day for children to pray. it can be done before, between classes, during lunch after school. That does not mean people are intolerant to religion. If you want your child to be able to pray in school send them to private school. Because you're footing the bill the rules for church and states separation don’t apply. Your child can pray for the entire day with out a care in the world. Oh wait no they can’t because they too have a lesson plan that must be followed, but at least you know they wont be taught about all those amoral, pedophile LGBT people in the world

Facebook High School Friend The part you're ignoring is the part where Harvey had relationships with 16 year olds. In my country, that's pedophilia. And I agree with you that all pedophiles should be put away, no matter what the sexual orientation. No, I don't want my children to be exposed to this in school. No, pedophiles should not be celebrated in school. As I said before, you have the double standard. You want others to be tolerant of you, but you're not willing to tolerate anything but your own ways.

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1 comment:

  1. Dang! and you thought you were just updating your FB status :) look what you did!